BSA Decisions Ngā Whakatau a te Mana Whanonga Kaipāho

---

Summary

The "Sieg Heil Awards" are a regular feature of a talkback programme introduced as

the "Politically Incorrect" show, broadcast each Sunday on Radio Pacific between

10.00am–2.00pm. It is hosted by Lindsay Perigo.

Mr Lehrer complained to Radio Pacific Ltd that the consistent repetition of the term

"Sieg Heil" was offensive and hurtful as, for many, it symbolised fear, agony and

death.

While acknowledging that the use of the term could be hurtful, Radio Pacific explained

that the phrase was used during the show to ridicule the "politically correct"

approach. It considered that the freedom of speech principle outweighed the distaste

felt by some at the use of the words, and declined to uphold the complaint.

Dissatisfied with Radio Pacific's response, Mr Lehrer referred his complaint to the

Broadcasting Standards Authority under s.8(1)(a) of the Broadcasting Act 1989.

For the reasons below, the Authority declines to uphold the complaint.

Decision

The members of the Authority have listened to a tape of the item complained about

and have read the correspondence (summarised in the Appendix). As is its practice,

the Authority determines the complaint without a formal hearing.

The host of the talkback session broadcast on Radio Pacific between

10.00am–2.00pm each Sunday since late 1996 (Lindsay Perigo) takes a libertarian approach to

the issues discussed. The show's introduction, repeated on occasions throughout the

session, describes the broadcast as:

The politically incorrect show hosted by that fearless outspoken champion of

liberty, Lindsay Perigo – one man's private war against the guardians.

The host's introductory comment in part states that the broadcast is "the only radio

programme in the world dedicated to telling the thought police to go screw

themselves".

In stressing libertarian philosophy, the programme frequently draws analogies with

Nazism and Stalinism. New Zealand, for example, is described as a "semi-fascist

state", and the Human Rights Commission as the "Human Wrongs Commissariat".

The host bestows the "Sieg Heil Award" on individuals and organisations who have

made a statement or have taken some action which he finds philosophically abhorrent.

An Award involves playing a tape apparently from the Nazi era in Germany when the

crowd respond three times to the call, "Sieg Heil".

While acknowledging the host's right to hold and express extreme views, Mr Lehrer

complained to Radio Pacific that it was offensive and unacceptable to use the "Sieg

Heil" tape. Pointing out that he had lost family members in concentration camps, the

words, he wrote, meant fear, agony and death.

Radio Pacific assessed the complaint under standard R2 of the Radio Code of

Broadcasting Practice. It requires broadcasters:

R2   To take into consideration currently accepted norms of decency and good

taste in language and behaviour, bearing in mind the context in which any

language or behaviour occurs.

While not necessarily endorsing the use of the "Sieg Heil" tape, Radio Pacific advised

Mr Lehrer that it was used by the host as a form of satire and as an expression of

scorn, to ridicule the beliefs of those who the host considered to be politically correct.

In declining to uphold the complaint, Radio Pacific's Executive Chairman (Mr Derek

Lowe) advised Mr Lehrer:

I'm sorry that we are causing you concern. I respect your views on this matter,

but I equally feel Lindsay's right to free speech must be protected. Not because

I necessarily agree with it, but because he has a right to express his views and

have them challenged in a provocative and robust manner, provided he does not

breach the Codes of Broadcasting Practice. I do not believe that the use of the

words "Sieg Heil" are a breach.

Mr Lehrer's referral of his complaint to the Authority and the subsequent

correspondence have repeated these two themes. Mr Lehrer has maintained that the

use of the "Sieg Heil" recording is deeply offensive not only to survivors of the

holocaust, but to any civilised and educated person. Radio Pacific has argued that

although the recording may cause understandable anguish, the right of free speech

takes priority.

Radio Pacific has also referred to a recent decision issued by the Authority (No: 1997-

052, dated 21 April 1997) in which the Authority dealt with a complaint about an

aspect of the use of a "Sieg Heil" Awards on the talkback session on Sunday 15

December 1996. On that occasion, the Authority was required to consider whether

the references to Nazism and the shouts of "Sieg Heil" breached the good taste and

decency requirement in standard R2.

The Authority acknowledged on that occasion the distaste felt at the use of the Nazi

rallying cry. Nevertheless, taking into account the specific context in which the tape

was used, the Authority concluded that although it was a matter which was relatively

evenly balanced, standard R2 was not contravened.

A similar situation confronts the Authority with this complaint. Mr Lehrer has

movingly and effectively explained the offensiveness and unpleasantness of the

repeated broadcast of the Nazi salute. Radio Pacific has accepted the "Sieg Heil

Awards" cause justifiable anguish. Nevertheless, it has argued that the Awards are

legitimate as a satirical tool in the pursuit of free speech.

The Authority is required to weight these conflicting perspectives and, after careful

consideration, it accepts that the principle of free speech is dominant. Mr Lehrer

makes the point that most New Zealanders do not have a first hand experience of

fascism, and thus do not understand the hurt that the "Sieg Heil Awards" can arouse.

The Authority accepts that this is so and, although the following remark possibly

includes a touch of chauvinistic nationalism, it believes that as a consequence of their

lack of close familiarity with Nazism, most listeners will not feel the degree of disgust

expressed by Mr Lehrer. The Authority has taken this matter of context into account

in reaching its decision that the broadcast of the "Sieg Heil Awards" does not breach

the requirements of standard R2.

For the reasons above, the Authority declines to uphold the complaint.

Signed for and on behalf of the Authority

Judith Potter
Chairperson
22 May 199

Appendix

Mr Lehrer's Complaint to Radio Pacific Ltd - 6 February 1997

In a letter dated 26 November 1996, Mr Daniel Lehrer of Nelson wrote to Radio

Pacific Ltd to express his disgust and concern about the "Sieg Heil Awards" presented

by the host (Lindsay Perigo) on his talkback programme each Sunday morning.

While acknowledging that the host was entitled to extreme views, Mr Lehrer

considered it offensive and unacceptable to use a recording of the person who was

responsible for the world's worst human disaster in the 20th century. The host's

casual use of the tape, he added, was proof that he had no idea of what the terms

meant, especially for the millions for whom the words "Sieg Heil" meant fear, agony

and death. Referring to the members of his family lost in the Nazi concentration

camps, he maintained that the use of the words was grossly inappropriate.

In its reply dated 29 November, Radio Pacific explained that the host used the "Sieg

Heil" clip as a form of satire. Radio Pacific said that the hosts were given as much

editorial freedom as possible and it did not set out to offend listeners. Observing that

the host's "politically incorrect" show was meant to be provocative, Radio Pacific

said Mr Lehrer's concerns would nevertheless be passed on to the host.

Mr Lehrer, in his response dated 6 February 1997, noted that the "Sieg Heil Awards"

continued every Sunday. He appreciated that the host was not promoting fascism

but, he emphasised, the words "Sieg Heil" were the central symbol of the Third Reich

and should not be used other than in a documentary. He added:

"The constant public repetition of Sieg Heil" is deeply offensive and hurtful for

the many people for whom these words symbolise the fear, agony and death of

many millions of victims. As all symbols of the Third Reich, the use of "Sieg

Heil" is banned in many western countries for all other than documentary

purposes as it is considered to be indecent and in the worst possible taste.

Radio Pacific's Response to the Complaint - 25 February 1997

Radio Pacific's Executive Chairman (Mr Derek Lowe) began:

I find it quite distressing to have to write about the Third Reich but I put

Lindsay's right to free speech ahead of your concern over the use of the words

"Zieg Heil". I don't necessarily endorse his use of it and I wouldn't necessarily

adopt that approach myself, but he hosts a talkback programme that sets out to

offer a contrary set of views and values to those who are sometimes referred to

as "politically correct". I don't want to become an apologist for Lindsay Perigo,

but it's clear that he believes in individual freedom and responsibility and he

strenuously objects to any person or persons who wish to tell him what he can

or cannot do with his own life. He targets numerous groups and organisation

that, in his view, are the "enemy". As opposed to Hitler, at least Lindsay

chooses to only use words as weapons and that's something that New

Zealanders who fought in two world wars gave up some years and in some

cases, their lives for.

The historic audio clip, he continued, was used by the host as an expression of scorn

and in a satirical way to ridicule the beliefs of politically correct individuals.

Noting that its use was not illegal in New Zealand, Mr Lowe said it was important to

let people use such terms rather than legislate to ban words. He concluded:

I'm sorry that we are causing you concern. I respect your views on this matter,

but I equally feel Lindsay's right to free speech must be protected. Not because

I necessarily agree with it, but because he has a right to express his views and

have them challenged in a provocative and robust manner, provided he does not

breach the Codes of Broadcasting Practice. I do not believe that the use of the

words "Zieg Heil" are a breach.

Mr Lehrer's Referral to the Broadcasting Standards Authority - 16 March 1997

Dissatisfied with Radio Pacific's response, Mr Lehrer referred his complaint to the

Broadcasting Standards Authority under s.8(1)(a) of the Broadcasting Act 1989.

Explaining that the use of the term "Sieg Heil" was banned in some countries in

respect to the memory of the victims of the Third Reich, Mr Lehrer considered that

the host used it for sensationalism. He pointed out that many people were murdered

by the Nazis and many lost their lives fighting them, and the host's:

... trivialisation of the single most powerful Nazi Exhalation is, I believe, an

unacceptable indecency in the worst possible taste.

He enclosed a copy of a letter to Radio Pacific dated 14 March as he considered it to

be important that he and Mr Lowe understand each other's point of view.

Acknowledging that he found the politically correct approach to be "idiotic", he

argued nevertheless, that there were exceptions to every principle. The use of "Sieg

Heil", he continued, was one such exception as the words had brought too much

suffering to too many people.

He pointed out that most New Zealanders, fortunately, had no first hand experience

with fascism, especially with the Gestapo and the Nazi leaders' use of "Sieg Heil".

However, given these experiences, it was easy to understand why the use of "Sieg

Heil" had been banned in some countries, and he argued that the reasoning should be

appreciated in New Zealand. He wrote:

The idea is to leave the substance in the words, never to disconnect them from

the endless suffering they represent, not to rob them of their horrifying power

by using them in everyday life and therefore making them normal, acceptable.

This has nothing to do with the suppression of freedom of expression.

Radio Pacific's Response to the Authority - 4 April 1997

Radio Pacific advised the Authority:

Radio Pacific's position is that while it understands Mr Lehrer's concerns and

justifiable personal anguish, the right of free speech takes priority. There is no

doubt that the use of Sieg heil audio is controversial, and upsetting to some

people, yet at the same it provides a vehicle for strong libertarian views. In

other words it all forms part of general debate.

Radio Pacific also reported that the host advised that the Award was designed to serve

as a wake-up call to the effects of "political correctness", and to ridicule the

perpetrators of that approach. The host pointed to a number of areas where he

considered that political correctness had curtailed various freedoms.

Radio Pacific advised that another correspondent with experience of concentration

camps believed that its use by the host was not inappropriate, and concluded:

It follows that Radio Pacific is emphasising the right of free speech when the

Authority considers this complaint. The effect of upholding this complaint

would be to ban the use of a Nazi symbol. That would be tantamount to

banning symbols which may be offensive to certain individuals. Mr Lehrer is

not forced to listen to the programme, nor is any other person. Nazi symbolism

is used often whether in films, television comedies (Allo Allo, Dad's Army).

Radio Pacific considers that this complaint should not be upheld. It goes right to

the heart of media freedom and censorship/ban. Radio Pacific understands Mr

Lehrer's concern, however believes that it is outweighed by the more

fundamental issues of media freedom which apply here.

Mr Lehrer's Final Comment - 15 April 1997

Maintaining the approach he had taken in his earlier correspondence, Mr Lehrer said

that the recording of "Sieg Heil" was deeply offensive. It was insulting not only to

survivors of the Holocaust, but to any civilised and educated person. The

comparisons made with the current political system in New Zealand, he added, were

"grossly inappropriate".

"Sieg Heil", he repeated, was a central symbol of the Third Reich and had

accompanied millions of people to the gas chambers. Describing as untypical the

positive comment from one survivor cited by Radio Pacific, Mr Lehrer said his view

was supported by his friends who had also signed his letter.

In summary, Mr Lehrer maintained that free speech arguments did not justify the use

of "Sieg Heil" as an aggressive effect on talkback radio. He approved of the

diminishing use of the clip by the host - and its replacement with a "Laughter Award"

- but continued to argue for its total removal.

Further Correspondence

In a letter dated 29 April 1997, Radio Pacific referred to two recent decisions released

by the Authority (Nos: 1997-051 and 1997-052 dated 21 April 1997). In the latter,

the Authority had declined to uphold the aspect of the complaint which alleged that

the use of the Nazi rallying cry was a breach of the good taste requirement in standard

G2.

In regard to the current complaint, Radio Pacific submitted:

Radio Pacific considers that Daniel Lehrer's complaint is a serious one in terms

of use of symbolism. The Sieg heil tape used by Lindsay Perigo on his

programme is from a BBC compilation tape. The award involves the use of

humour and satire from a libertarian perspective. The Authority itself has

recognised this in both its recent decisions.