BSA Decisions Ngā Whakatau a te Mana Whanonga Kaipāho

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Summary

Following an interview with Dame Barbara Cartland after the Princess of Wales's

death, Paul Holmes quoted Dame Barbara as having said "the trouble with this Royal

family is that they're Germans". The comment was broadcast on TV One on Holmes

on 5 September 1997 at 7.00pm.

Mr Faber and Dr Noble both complained to Television New Zealand Ltd, the

broadcaster, that the remarks were offensive, inappropriate for the occasion and

discriminatory. They each requested a public apology from TVNZ.

TVNZ asserted that the complainants were confusing the message with the messenger,

and noted that the comment was quite clearly attributed to Dame Barbara. It did not

consider the remark to be offensive, or to discriminate against Germans. Furthermore,

it argued, the comment was Dame Barbara's genuinely-held opinion.

Dissatisfied with their responses, the complainants each referred their complaint to

the Broadcasting Standards Authority under s.8(1)(a) of the Broadcasting Act 1989.

For the reasons given below, the Authority declines to uphold the complaints.

Decision

The members of the Authority have viewed the item complained about and have read

the correspondence (summarised in the Appendices). On this occasion, the Authority

determines the complaints without a formal hearing.

Coverage of the reaction of the British people to the Princess of Wales's death was

broadcast on Holmes during the week after she died. On 15 September, the coverage

included an interview with Dame Barbara Cartland, step-grandmother of the Princess.

At the conclusion of the interview, Mr Holmes quoted her as having said "the trouble

with this Royal Family is that they're Germans".

Mr Faber and Dr Noble both complained to TVNZ that the comment was in bad taste

and indiscreet and, in addition, that it was discriminatory because it had ethnic and

racist overtones. They both requested that a public apology be made.

TVNZ advised that it had examined the complaints under standards G2 and G13 of

the Television Code of Broadcasting Practice. Those standards require broadcasters:

G2   To take into consideration currently accepted norms of decency and

taste in language and behaviour, bearing in mind the context in which

any language or behaviour occurs.

G13 To avoid portraying people in a way which represents as inherently

inferior, or is likely to encourage discrimination against, any section of

the community on account of sex, race, age, disability, occupational

status, sexual orientation or the holding of any religious, cultural or

political belief. This requirement is not intended to prevent the

broadcast of material which is:

(i) factual, or

(ii) the expression of genuinely-held opinion in a news or current

affairs programme, or

(iii) in the legitimate context of a humorous, satirical or dramatic work.

 

In TVNZ's view, the complainants had confused the message with the messenger. It

reminded them that the presenter made clear that he was quoting Dame Barbara, and

that TVNZ had simply conveyed that message. TVNZ considered it quite

appropriate that the week's coverage, which reflected the mood of the British people

in the week after the Princess's death, should include the interview with Dame

Barbara, including her comment about the Royal Family being Germans. That

comment, it maintained, helped to put the rest of her remarks in context.

TVNZ did not consider that the standard of good taste and decency was breached by

reporting accurately the stated views of someone as well known as Dame Barbara.

Referring to the alleged breach of standard G13, TVNZ responded that it had simply

reported an opinion, and accordingly it was subject to the exemption in standard G13

(ii) because it was a genuinely-held view. TVNZ declined to uphold the complaints.

The Authority accepts that the remark would be provocative to some people, but

acknowledges that it had been widely reported previously, and that it was clearly

attributed to Dame Barbara. With respect to the complaints that the comment was

discriminatory, the Authority is not required to decide whether the remarks are

capable of being discriminatory because even if they are, the exemption in standard

G13 (ii) applies. Accordingly, it declines to uphold the complaints.

For the reasons set forth above, the Authority declines to uphold the

complaints.

Signed for and on behalf of the Authority

Sam Maling
Chairperson
20 November 1997

Appendix I

W G Faber's Complaint to Television New Zealand Ltd - 14 September 1997

Mr Faber of Gore complained to Television New Zealand Ltd about its broadcast on

Holmes on 5 September 1997 at 7.00pm, in which Paul Holmes, the presenter, quoted

Dame Barbara Cartland as saying "the trouble with the Royal family is that they're

Germans".

The comments were made in the context of the coverage of the funeral of the Princess

of Wales. Having interviewed Dame Barbara Cartland, Mr Holmes was shown

outside Buckingham Palace, where he made the remarks complained about.

In Mr Faber's opinion, the comment seemed to imply that the Royal family was

somehow responsible for the Princess's death. He considered it inappropriate for the

occasion, and discriminatory. He requested a public apology and that the remark be

withdrawn in a conspicuous manner on television.

Mr Faber considered it unethical to quote someone who was no longer present and

unable to correct the statement.

TVNZ's Response to the Formal Complaint - 29 September 1997

TVNZ advised that it considered the complaint under standards G2 and G13 of the

Television Code of Broadcasting Practice.

In its assessment, TVNZ considered that Mr Faber was confusing the message with

the messenger. It noted that Mr Holmes made it quite clear that he was quoting Dame

Barbara. The views were not his own.

TVNZ explained that it was the role of Mr Holmes in London to reflect the mood of

the British people in the week after her death. In its view, it was quite appropriate

that he should interview Dame Barbara who is the step-grandmother of the Princess.

It added:

Looking at the item, which included some fairly extravagant comment from

Dame Barbara it does seem that a correct editorial decision was made to

include the line about the Royal Family being Germans because it put the rest

of the piece in context.

Clearly Dame Barbara holds these views - eccentric though they might be.

In TVNZ's view, the public was better able to assess her comments during the

interview by hearing subsequently of her disparaging remark about the Royal family

and Germans.

TVNZ did not consider that it breached standard G2 by accurately reporting the

views of a well-known person. It repeated that it was not TVNZ which made the

disparaging remark, it simply reported what Dame Barbara Cartland had said. With

reference to standard G13, TVNZ responded that the comment was a genuinely-held

opinion, and therefore subject to clause (ii) of the standard. It concluded:

TVNZ is sorry that you were offended by this broadcast, but believes your

anger should more correctly be directed at Dame Barbara rather than TVNZ.

The remark helped to put the preceding interview into context and we believe

you are better informed about Dame Barbara and her views for being made

aware of the comment.

It declined to uphold the complaint.

Mr Faber's Referral to the Broadcasting Standards Authority - 6 October 1997

Dissatisfied with TVNZ's decision not to uphold his complaint, Mr Faber referred it

to the Broadcasting Standards Authority under s.8(1)(a) of the Broadcasting Act

1989.

Mr Faber pointed out first that the offending words were said after the interview was

concluded, and the interviewee had no say in approving them for broadcast. Secondly,

he noted, Mr Holmes delivered the words with a smile, as if he were giving away some

special information, "a bon mot to be quoted."

He agreed that it was clear the words were not his own but, in Mr Faber's view, there

was no need to repeat them. He believed Mr Holmes appeared to relish repeating

them, and pointed out that they were said in the context of relating how well he had

been treated by Dame Barbara after the interview, thus giving the impression Mr

Holmes approved of everything said before.

Mr Faber emphasised that, being German himself, he felt offended by the comments,

which he considered help to reinforce prejudices.

He did not accept TVNZ's findings, considering its response almost offensive as well.

TVNZ's Response - 16 October 1997

TVNZ advised that it had no further comment to make.

Appendix II

C B Noble's Complaint to Television New Zealand Ltd - 10 September 1997

Dr Noble of Wanganui complained, through the Broadcasting Standards Authority,

about a broadcast on Holmes in which Paul Holmes interviewed Dame Barbara

Cartland. At the end of the interview he quoted a comment made by Dame Barbara to

the effect that "after all the Royal family are Germans."

Dr Noble considered these remarks were in exceptionally bad taste and did not help

the relations between the community and the Royal family. In his view, the ethnicity

of the Royal family was not a suitable subject for comment, and was, frankly, a racist

comment.

He sought a public apology and some evidence that the presenter was subject to some

controls regarding his seeming lack of discretion.

Having been referred the complaint, in a letter dated 17 September 1997, TVNZ

advised that it intended to assess the matter in the context of standards G2 and G13 of

the Television Code of Broadcasting Practice.

Dr Noble responded on 23 September that his complaint was confined to remarks

made by Mr Holmes following the interview in which he divulged what Dame Barbara

had said in a private conversation. He wrote:

When one of your staff engage in a tete-a-tete with a geriatric lady in her 90's it

is quite likely that some indiscreet remark may be passed. It was absolutely

without taste for such a remark to be quoted in a TV programme.

Apart from the obvious lack of taste, he continued, the question of racism arose. It

was a sneering reference to the Royal Family's ethnicity.

TVNZ's Response to the Formal Complaint - 29 September 1997

TVNZ's response was the same as to Mr Faber and is summarised in Appendix I.

Dr Noble's Referral to the Broadcasting Standards Authority - 8 October 1997

Dissatisfied with TVNZ's response, Dr Noble referred the complaint to the

Broadcasting Standards Authority under s.8(1)(a) of the Broadcasting Act 1989.

Dr Noble did not agree with TVNZ's response. He considered the remark to be a

pejorative one with an ethnic and racist basis.

Dr Noble did not consider it relevant that the remark was a genuinely-held view. In

his assessment, it did not fall within the realms of decency and good taste. He added:

I put it to you, that if one were to go on a programme in New Zealand opining

that 'the trouble with TVNZ was that there were too many Maoris involved in

it', this would be regarded as pejorative, tasteless and a racist remark and

would not be considered within acceptable standards.

In his view, a public apology was owed.

TVNZ's Response to the Authority - 16 October 1997

TVNZ advised that it had no further comment to make.